Is there an eternal trinity?

Make no mistake, there is a trinity, but the real question is – What is the difference between God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit? Are they all one? We have the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Are all three equal? Do all share the same station? Were all three in existence together throughout all eternity? Are all to be worshipped? As far as the Holy Spirit goes, any such deification (equal to God and to be worshipped) is extremely hard to find in scripture. It reminds me of the Lost Dutchman Mine in the Superstition Mountains; it may be there but it hasn’t been found yet.

I would urge everyone to look in a Nave’s Topical Bible under Trinity, and read the verses that point to the trinity. Like I said in the last paragraph, there is a trinity; but is the Holy Spirit, God? God is a spirit. The Holy Spirit is a power or a force (in the form of a spirit person) that goes out from God to do His bidding.

Please read the following scriptures and comments in the spirit in which they are intended.

Genesis 1:26-27
26. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

This is a portion of scripture that people use to prove the trinity doctrine. This tends to prove that Jesus was there at the creation as Prov. 8:22, Col. 1:15, Rev. 3:14, have subsequently said. This would have been a good place to inject the Holy Spirit by name, and thereby establish the trinity on solid ground.

Psalms 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

Proverbs 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell? Compare to John 3:13.

Isaiah 6:3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

This is another innuendo scripture. Holy, holy, holy indicates a trinity they say.

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

“I have put my spirit upon him,” would indicate to me that if Jesus were God, as in before Rev. 3:14, He would not have had to, or been able to say this. See Isa. 11:1-7, for a similar scripture.

Isaiah 63:10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.

This scripture denotes a difference between the Holy Spirit and God. God was upset that Israel offended His Holy Spirit and brought judgment upon them for doing it. If the Holy Spirit was an equal to God, why didn’t he (the Holy Spirit) bring judgment on them himself? See Matt. 1:18,20.

Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.

I’m not sure whether this is talking about the Holy Spirit or John the Baptist. There are those that say this is talking about John and the Lord Jesus. It needs a lot of study.

Matthew 1:18,20
18. Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. 20. But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Matt. 1:18,20, proves that the Holy Spirit can also do physical things, but he is in subjection to God. Anybody in subjection to anyone is not equal to them.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

This is definitely one of the pro-trinity scriptures. One of the arguments is that this scripture does not say, go in the names of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. I believe what it is really saying is, go in the name of the Father, and the name of the Son, and the name of the Holy Ghost.

Mark 3:28-29
28. Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29. But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

See: Luke 12:10.

Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

The Holy Spirit was simply the vessel that God used to bring Jesus into the womb of Mary. Notice the difference between the Holy Spirit and the Highest. If they are one, why the difference?

Luke 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

There can be no doubt that the Holy Spirit is a very special person. In all reality of the revealed Word, Jesus is higher rank than the Holy Spirit, but judging by this scripture, there is no doubt of his importance. It should be noted that nowhere do we see that he should be worshipped. However, Jesus and God are to be worshipped. Why can speaking a word against the Son be forgiven, but not against the Holy Spirit.

John 14:16-18,26
16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17. Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 26. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Acts 5:3-4
3. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4. Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

These are a couple more that are supposed to prove that the Holy Spirit and God are one in the same. The truth is, if you even lie to a fellow believer, lie before God and in truth, you lie to God. If you kill another human being, you sin unto God.

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

Here is another example of three things pointing to the trinity. The Godhead does not automatically mean the trinity and their equality.

Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

I really don’t know what this means, but I would guess the point being, if the Holy Spirit was God, it would have been an Old Testament fact quite well known at the beginning of the New Testament era.

1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

I think this ties into Luke 12:10. The Holy Spirit is very special, and if we defile the place where he comes to live, God certainly has the right to destroy us. See Eph. 2:22, (below)

Ephesians 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

I think it is possible that the person who kills himself is the one that God has turned His back on. When we offend that Spirit, we can no longer be a habitation. Some are not able to cope with that loss and the feeling of being all alone. We are a habitation through His Spirit.
2 Thessalonians 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

This is one of many similar verses that could have included the Holy Spirit, but didn’t. I think that it proves that the Holy Spirit wasn’t elevated unto an equal station in the Godhead until much later in church history. 2 John 1:9, (below) is another.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

This (he) points to the personage of the Holy Spirit.

2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

This would have been a tremendous place to further establish and prove the “Holy” trinity if it were true. There is even a warning to make sure that we wouldn’t turn away from the doctrine of Christ; there is also another in Revelation 22:18-19, about adding to, and taking away.

See pgs. 495-96 of UBD – Holy Spirit. Is the Holy Spirit’s field of operation to do with the Soul? I say the dirt plus the Spirit of God equals the living soul. Our (God’s) spirit energizes that dirt and creates the soul. The body and the soul age, but in different ways. The body gets older while the soul gets wiser and/or more knowledge. I think the Holy Spirit operates within that soul mechanism. Our bodies don’t get wiser but our soul does as the Holy Spirit works within us and teaches and convicts us as we travel along life’s path.

The Holy Spirit is conspicuously missing from most of the texts where Jesus speaks of God and Himself. Is this a doctrine of the Devil? As the book of Mormon and the Koran were supposedly delivered to Joseph Smith and Mohammed by angels, could this just be another attempt to get revenge on God by a jealous Lucifer? This is just another attack to dilute the stead of Jesus. In the Trinitarian view, the Holy Spirit is equal to Jesus. As a matter of fact their view even tries to make Jesus and the Holy Spirit equal to the God of eternity. Jesus doesn’t even do this. He prays to God His Father as a Son, not as an equal. When Jesus says, “my Father and I are one,” He is speaking in Spiritual. Jesus’ body was created and indwelt by God (the Father) not God the Son.

If all three existed together from eternity past, then who is the spirit indwelling the pre-incarnate Christ? The obvious answer to the Trinitarian is God the Son. But the name Immanuel, says, “God with us” and I think implies, God the Father. By calling the three-in-one, one God, it weakens the whole message of “Immanuel.” If the Jesus part of God were to indwell the pre-incarnate Christ, then it would be Jesus’ Spirit indwelling Himself and not God. Therefore, Immanuel would not be Immanuel. It weakens the whole message and truth of one God. Before the beginning was God and God alone.